Wintery Knight

…integrating Christian faith and knowledge in the public square

Are churches preparing women to choose real men for husbands?

First, I want every one to take a look at this verse on providing for a family  in context: (1 Tim 5:3-8)

 3 Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need.

4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.

5 The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help.

6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

7 Give the people these instructions, so that no one may be open to blame.

8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

And these verses on charity in evangelism: (Phil 4:10-19)

10 I rejoiced greatly in the Lord that at last you renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 

11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances.

12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

 14 Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. 

15 Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only; 

16 for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. 

17 Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. 

18 I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. 

19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.

Now I want to talk about a very disturbing trend that I see in the church. I see a lot of women who are not prepared to choose men who are going to fill this provider role. Men have a role, straight from the Bible, to provide for their wife and children, and to donate to support evangelistic efforts. And providing is not predicated on how a man makes a woman feel. Providing is based on the things such as:

  • working for money before you are legally able to work for money
  • working summer jobs during high school and college
  • working during college or doing college degrees while working full-time
  • doing consulting work or running your own business from home in the evenings
  • studying science, technology, engineering and math (no exceptions!)
  • not drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes – no addictions of any kind
  • not spending money on hair, tattoos, clothes, shoes or flashy junk
  • own your own car, and keep it well-maintained
  • own your own pet, and keep it healthy and well-trained
  • pay your rent or mortgage payments on time
  • carry no debt, borrow no money
  • avoid depending on government welfare or student loans
  • not taking sick days, not getting sick at all
  • purchasing resources for others, especially things like apologetics books, to build them up
  • giving charity to solid Christian speakers and funding apologetics events (William Lane Craig debates)
  • making investments in stocks or real estate
  • maxing out 401K contributions and Roth IRAs
  • taking women out on dates, driving them in the man’s own car, and paying for everything
  • spending money to help the pro-life and pro-marriage causes (Morse, Klusendorf)

And I think you have to give bonus marks for getting up early, although I can’t do that. I know someone who does, though – the hardest working software engineer I know.

Women should not prefer young men who are studying political science, psychology, English, education, grievance studies, and other non-quantitative subjects which do not equip a man to provide enough salary and savings to run a Christian life plan (homeschooling or private Christian schools or both). What ends up happening is that there is a lot of fighting over money, especially with women who don’t have savings of their own before marrying. Without money, the children will likely get pushed into public school and they influenced by secularism and leftism.

What to do? Pick a man with a proven record of taking his responsibilities to study and earn seriously.

Here are some of the top earning careers:

Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary – Full List
STARTING MEDIAN PAY MID-CAREER MEDIAN PAY
Petroleum Engineering $97,900 $155,000
Chemical Engineering $64,500 $109,000
Electrical Engineering (EE) $61,300 $103,000
Materials Science & Engineering $60,400 $103,000
Aerospace Engineering $60,700 $102,000
Computer Engineering (CE) $61,800 $101,000
Physics $49,800 $101,000
Applied Mathematics $52,600 $98,600
Computer Science (CS) $56,600 $97,900
Nuclear Engineering $65,100 $97,800
Biomedical Engineering (BME) $53,800 $97,800
Economics $47,300 $94,700
Mechanical Engineering (ME) $58,400 $94,500
Statistics $49,000 $93,800
Industrial Engineering (IE) $57,400 $93,100
Civil Engineering (CE) $53,100 $90,200
Mathematics $47,000 $89,900
Environmental Engineering $51,700 $88,600
Management Information Systems (MIS) $51,000 $88,200
Software Engineering $54,900 $87,800

I think that marrying someone who is not in one of these careers makes no sense at all, especially in light of a global recession.

And just to be clear, this is an area I struggle in myself. I am great at working for money, and saving it and investing it. But I say a lot of controversial things and a lawsuit would not be good for my fortune. I should be spending more time on evenings and weekends keeping my skills up, and that’s what I’m going to be doing on my vacation. But I think the standard stands regardless of my own abilities to meet it. It is the standard.

Money is an important part of the Christian life. The Bible says that if a man does not work, neither shall he eat. We have a tradition on what men are supposed to do in Christianity. Men are supposed to take care of business, and women are supposed to prefer men with proven records of taking care of business. Being handsome and fun is nowhere in the Bible as a qualification for men to be good husbands and fathers. But earning money and providing for others in the community is a non-negotiable requirement. It’s as required as the obligation to not marry a non-Christian man.

Women who are serious about Christianity will prefer men who meet the specifications laid out in the Bible. And this has to have been demonstrated over the course of years – a pattern of studying hard things, working multiple jobs, spending little, saving much and supporting family and evangelism.  To me, a woman who prefers a man who has no record of providing is a woman who has been influenced by feminism. She rejects the traditional roles of men and insists on a man who is has no authority to lead because he does not have the provider role. That’s what’s really going on here. Men who earn have authority to lead and hold a woman accountable when she misbehaves, and some women hate being led and being held accountable. (By being held accountable I mean disagreeing with the woman, canceling optional goodies, etc.)

I think we have a major problem in this society, and in the church, where we think that women are above criticism. We think that anything they feel like doing is a good idea. We think that their complete lack of rational thought and lack of planning in relationships is somehow “romantic”. We think that women who embrace spontaneity and ignorance of statistical data are “free spirits”. Is it any wonder that the out-of-wedlock birth rate is 42%, the divorce rate for first time marriages is 45%, and women are shacking up with unqualified men instead of getting married?

This is all – all - caused by the fact that women have no idea what men are for, and they deliberately prefer non-judgmental, non-theologically-exclusive, non-rational, tolerant, intuitive, wusses instead of men who give them hard books to read and who hold them accountable when they misbehave. Women today think it is a bad thing when a man holds her accountable when she disrespects him in public, but think it is a good thing to date a man who asks his parents to borrow the car keys before taking her out. Huh? I had a current year car with only 7500 miles on it at age 17 – because I was working two jobs in high school, and part-time IT/desktop publishing in my own business on the side.

Women who are interested in testing a man’s abilities can use my checklist for finding authentic Christian women. Those questions work on men too.

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36 Responses

  1. CB says:

    I am a little baffled to read that subjects such as English & psychology don’t lead to valuable careers. English teachers? Overseas missionaries who teach English as tentmaker missionaries? Psychologists? Pastoral counseling skills?

    • Please read:

      http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

      The top:
      Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary – Full List
      STARTING MEDIAN PAY MID-CAREER MEDIAN PAY
      Petroleum Engineering $97,900 $155,000
      Chemical Engineering $64,500 $109,000
      Electrical Engineering (EE) $61,300 $103,000
      Materials Science & Engineering $60,400 $103,000
      Aerospace Engineering $60,700 $102,000
      Computer Engineering (CE) $61,800 $101,000
      Physics $49,800 $101,000
      Applied Mathematics $52,600 $98,600
      Computer Science (CS) $56,600 $97,900
      Nuclear Engineering $65,100 $97,800
      Biomedical Engineering (BME) $53,800 $97,800
      Economics $47,300 $94,700
      Mechanical Engineering (ME) $58,400 $94,500
      Statistics $49,000 $93,800
      Industrial Engineering (IE) $57,400 $93,100
      Civil Engineering (CE) $53,100 $90,200
      Mathematics $47,000 $89,900
      Environmental Engineering $51,700 $88,600
      Management Information Systems (MIS) $51,000 $88,200
      Software Engineering $54,900 $87,800

    • vangrungy says:

      nice.. I actually thought for one nano second that you were bitching..

  2. CB says:

    So no Christian English teachers allowed? No English-teaching tentmaker missionaries? No Christian psychologists? What about social workers? Pastoring a church is not a great money maker either.

    Earning power is only one of many factors that should go into a Christian’s vocational choices – and if Christians only chose lucrative professions, I think the world would be much poorer for it. More important, it seems to me, is the need for Christians of all professions to be taught how to be wise and live within their means, etc. whatever their profession may be.

    The Scriptures seem to put more emphasis on wise stewardship as a principle for living in whatever profession one is in, rather than on telling people to only choose lucrative professions. There are many ways to serve and further the Kingdom of God.

    I’m not saying it’s wrong to choose a lucrative profession for the purpose of serving the kingdom, I’m saying it is not mandatory for all Christians to choose a lucrative profession to effectively serve the kingdom – which is the impression your post seems to leave, WK.

    • I think it’s a question of effort. Do Christians have a responsibility to God to accept what the Bible says about earning and charity, and then implement that requirement by doing hard things. And do women have a responsibility to read the Bible and then allow it to inform their choices?

      The angle I took about women wanting to avoid leadership and accountability is also important. I knew a non-Christian woman who was living with a graduate student in psychology. When I asked her why, she said that she didn’t want him to judge her about anything she was doing. She chose him BECAUSE she knew he was not in a position to judge her on moral issues or make demands on her. Women today are choosing younger, weaker men that they can control – who don’t intimidate them or tell them to do anything.

    • Mbelina says:

      I’m in agreement with CB. I don’t think you’ve thought this through.

      By your logic, men should pay for Christian schools with Christian English teachers, but they just shouldn’t *be* those English teachers? Men should fund Scott K and WLC, but they just shouldn’t *be* either of those gentlemen? We should be interested in studies in psychology that reinforce the Christian worldview, but men shouldn’t *be* Christian psychologists – like, oh, Michele Bachmann’s husband.

      I’m afraid that’s deeply inconsistent.

      A ministry of financing God’s work is very valuable. But it’s not the only ministry that honours God.

      • Anyone who makes as much money as Michele Bachmann’s husband Marcus can be a psychologist. CB actually e-mailed me and I told him that if the person gets straight As in any of the non-quant subjects, and graduates debt-free, then is able to sock away $10,000 a year for a couple of years, then I think they are eligible to marry – if they have the proven ability to earn and save. The main thing is this. Men don’t take out loans, and men don’t pursue their studies with no eye to these other responsibilities to provide.

        If men do these non-quant degrees and get Bs and Cs and keep being a full-time student into their 30s, then women should not marry them, since they are not going to be able to perform the duties of marriage as laid out in the Bible. Retirement costs about $300,000 per person and each child costs about $500,000 to raise. Where is that money going to come from? Christian women need to ask themselves these questions. If the man doesn’t have a pattern of living debt-free, working and saving, then how do we know he can do it? Don’t women have a responsibility to choose a man who has proven ability in these Biblically-mandated areas? Do women have the obligation to recognize what is really going on when they choose men because they want to avoid being led and being judged by a man who is in a position to provide for them?

        • Emily says:

          So there are exceptions to the “studying science, technology, engineering and math (no exceptions!)” rule?

          • Yes!

            What I would be looking for is whether the person is able to do as many of the following as possible:

            - graduate debt-free
            - find a job related to the person’s field (especially in the private sector)
            - find a job that is useful to my plan, e.g. – influencing the church with apologetics, influencing the university with apologetics, defending the unborn, defending marriage, promoting free market capitalism, promoting intelligent design, etc.

            And so on.

            But the last few women I’ve liked have been: economics, computer science, nursing/management. Math is important for men and women, because there are right answers. You cannot skate through a class just by spouting back what the professor says. You have to sweat in the lab, and that builds the kind of character a man is so grateful for to have in a wife/mother. I also urge women to have graduate degrees. If they don’t have it before they meet me, I urge them to start one right away, or during the marriage. My reason being that a smart wife is better at protecting the family, and more independent if anything happens to me. Also, a better mentor for the children.

            I think the worst field to choose is English or any non-cognitive field, like Women’s Studies. But again, if it leads to a law degree and a job at the ADF, then it’s an exception that would work for me.

  3. I’m wondering if feminized churches are teaching Christians to follow the Victorious Conquering KING or to coo over baby Jesus, meek and mild.

  4. Oguni Tracy says:

    ‘I see a lot of women who are incapable of understanding that the purpose of men with respect to marriage is not to agree with them, make them laugh, make them feel “spiritual”…’

    I have a question, WK. Do the aforementioned have any importance whatsoever?

  5. Mike Singer says:

    Interesting blog ( as usual). I do agree with WK on the career choices with a caveat emptor.

    While it is fantastic to have a stay at mom educating the children and dad working to support this. The problem is American corporate culture in these professions. My experience to has been in Biotech / Pharma which lead me working 60-70 hours a week and traveling. This is a recipe for a divorce -I have seen this over and over and over again with other professions (medical and engineering).

    A couple of scriptures come to mind:
    - parable of the great feast (to busy and missed the Kingdom ) and the other
    - desire to be wealthy (pierced themselves with many sorrows) – retirement (Luke 12:15-21)

    The “safe” and scriptural thing to do in this context is found in Matt 6:25-34 = Seek first the Kingdom (Gods will) and His righteousness and these things will be added to you…..

    I fully agree with WK on “Women today are choosing younger, weaker men that they can control – who don’t intimidate them or tell them to do anything.”

    Imo, these women come from broken homes and have been inundated with the feminine “personal autonomy” media message for years. In addition, while they might attend church, they are not disciple level Christians ( deny oneself, pick up cross, and follow Christ). They actually think it is ok to go out with the girlfriends on Saturday night, get drunk, dance, and dress/ act provocatively. Then proceed to church on Sunday to be forgiven and claiming to be victorious Christians- they also complain about finding good men (Btw, this is clinical psychopathic behavior / compartmentalized thinking that is recognized in the scriptures as “spiritual darkness”).

    When women find a “real” Christian man and can’t use sex to snare him, they dont know what to do. They cant use sex to trick him into loving them. I found out that after 3-6 months – the “real” person come out and a tree is known by its fruit.
    That is why it is SO IMPORTANT NOT TO GET EMOTIONALLY, PHYSICALLY, SEXUALLY INVOLVED. In my experience, I have yet to meet a real Christian woman who has a real relationship with Jesus and “gets” Discipleship / Overcoming / Holiness.

    After really thinking about it- feminism is a spiritual/sin problem that has crept into the church (see Rev 2:18-29)

  6. Interesting Freudian slip: “especially with women who don’t have savings of their own before marring.”

    Anyway Wintery, you already know I agree with most of what you say (except for the silliness about dating and paying for everything. Really? Isn’t she your equal?)

    What you and a lot of Christian men do not understand is that the Great Designer has designed seeking certain attributes into the genetic programming of the female human being. These include, but are not limited to, handsomeness, excitement, etc. In other words, most of the things you seem to disparage women for liking.

    Look, just as you wouldn’t really like, then love, then have sexual intercourse with a certain type of women because you’re looking for someone with a certain list of attributes that not only please you as a Christian *but as a man*, don’t castigate the women for wanting their own list of attributes, ones that many Christian men simply don’t have.

    Unfortunately, I know too many Christian young men who are as boring as three-day-old white bread. There are many reasons for this (the dearth of fathers, the feminization of the church, among other things) but that is no reason to tell women to “stand down” off their list of (reasonable) requirements including, yes, a masculine sexuality that generates the tingles. I mean, you’re going to be married to this one guy for the rest of your life. If he doesn’t turn you on, PEEUUUUW!

    Besides this, women have been designed to be the gatekeepers to sex, which leads to bearing children, which leads to nation building, and all the good stuff. If you’re going to be married to one of these beauties, you WILL be heeding her words and deeds or you will NOT be heading to the marital bed.

    Now, you know I agree: women today have little grounding in what power they hold and how to wield that power correctly and with God’s purpose. As with giving a five-year-old a pistol, the power has gone to their heads and power, without responsibility, results in the chaos we see today. This is why it is highly important that not only should the young man develop himself to the best possible level, he should ALSO DEMAND the same from the woman and Church women are NO GUARANTEE: they’re just as bad and sometimes very much worse than secular women.

    Also watch out for the reformed slut who, after wandering the canyons and deserts of Penisville, suddenly realizes the “error” of her ways and buys the scarred, broken ticket back to Churchland where she will no doubt attract some poor Christian schmuck who has been going without any prospects for the last 30 years and who is so sex-starved, he will put her unworthy person on a sex-crazed pedestal, marry her, pay for her IVF if she’s no kids or, in a high and Christian manner, rear her children from those “relationships” with those who’ve pumped and dumped her.

    It is a very bad time to be a young man, let me tell you.

    • I think some of my harsh concerns are being driven by this crappy economy – an economy that has been crippled by single women voting (in general) for higher taxes and more government-provided social programs. This is lethal to economic growth and job creation.

  7. Viglet says:

    So single women have crippled the economy? Great idea! Which repub presidential candidate would you like to get on this soapbox?

  8. Stan says:

    Serious question, Wintery, because I’m NOT in disagreement with most of your views on this topic, and because I’m seriously not settled on this question. The Bible (as you note) says, “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” Would that, by definition, preclude a “stay-at-home” dad?

    • Yes and no.

      I actually observed the homeschooling family of my first girlfriend and he was a really good Dad. He had a home business and he ran it out of the home. Right now, I could probably retire and never work again and just live off of my portfolio. If I worked until I was 40, then I could afford a couple of kids with a slightly bigger portfolio as well. And if I managed to work some business out of the home like this other fellow did, then I would be able to afford the four kids I really wanted in the first place. So, yes, being a stay-at-home non-working or working Dad could work, but he would have to have a portfolio built up, and it’s better if he works from home.

  9. The Maze says:

    Hi WK,
    I honestly have mixed feeling about this as I do see how feminized churches are ruining the state of men in society as a whole. However I almost feel as though your description of a “man” is a bit robotic (no less cos of the subjects he “must” learn, which actually are necessary for robotics).
    Many of my friends fall into this category, some of them much more than others… But their marriages are about as uninspiring as they come.. Sure they stay together, but goodness, where’s the life??
    Sure, economy has influenced what it takes to be more successful with marriage, but does that mean that the economy dictates what kind of people can get married? Should there be a “season of plenty”, do we say “Phew, at least I don’t have to do that maths now”?
    Well, I guess I do get what you’re saying, however it’s not quite universal. Its not a yard-stick that can be used everywhere, and maybe that’s why I have mixed feelings. I’m in Africa. Only the more developed countries pay the STEM learners accordingly, elsewhere they’re pretty screwed. Even then, business is such a massive thing here, plus the credit system isn’t too astronomical, so basically in some countries, if you see someone driving a car, he owns it, he ain’t paying it off, especially in Zimbabwe where the economy is ridiculous, people buy with cash!
    “Affording” the life to do the things you’ve mentioned aren’t what make a man here.. Even the “good”things on these lists you’ve shown, are pretty easy to follow, as most claim to be Christian.. BUT THE MARRIAGES…!!!!! They are terrible!!!
    Oh yes, and let’s throw in a lower divorce rate…not because of healthy marriage, but because a man here can get another woman..and afford her and her eventual kids..! Even in another house..! Money here is really not the issue. Salary here can really go jump… Who cares if he supports William Lane Craig, or feeds the poor, when you can easily find him sleeping with the maid a few months down the line?
    I’m a little sad reading this because it’s almost as though men don’t grow up, or don’t get ahead in life once they’ve chosen a certain path (unless they earn as much as Marcus), and it’s actually challenging and judgmental at the same time.
    Men here know how to make it happen for themselves, but that’s not makes marriage great, it helps definitely, but it’s not the x-factor of successful family. The men I’ve seen, came from hard places, and didn’t have a country with such helpful systems and ridiculously low unemployment rates (really it shocks me how people cry over 12% unemployment…try 79%..and those are the graduates!).
    Men here don’t have a list of highest paying jobs out of varsity, because college isn’t the first idea here, work is. They come from hard realities where their parents had no schooling whatsoever yet sacrificed everything just to get their kids through high-school…
    And these men will totally kick the butt of most people I know, because their life-experience has made them into warriors, and their wives are absolutely submitted. (though as I’ve stated, men can also go totally left field)

    Well, I think I’m ranting now. WK, you aren’t the issue here. I’m just seeing that may times, it’s easy to talk the way you do, because of where you are. I struggle to find such resolve in the writings of men here. Well, mainly because the men here don’t really have the time to write, or don’t see it as meaningful.
    I’m seeing that simple geography influences the expression of Christianity seen within that place.

    Definitely challenged by this post, but also see where my background has influenced my view on these matters.

    However, I remain a very avid reader of your posts WK, you truly are hard-hitting, and that for me is a man through and through! Don’t ever hold back your punches!!

    • I am totally OK with people who go directly to work. My point was if you go to college, have an eye to your obligation to provide, and don’t waste time and money studying something that will not produce a return that allows you to take on that provider role.

  10. Hage says:

    Just a few notes from a girl out of a different culture:
    * The Bible does not say ‘he who does not work shall not eat’ but ‘he who does not WANT to work shall not eat’. This makes a big difference. There are circumstances in life when you are not able to work even if you want to. Like in Spain where jobs are very scarce. Should all Spanish ladies abstain from marriage?
    * The career choices of a future husband should not be decisive, but the reason why a man makes them. You can make a good earning career choice for all the wrong reasons. The most important is to work there where the Lord wants you to work.
    * Never taking sick leave is not a good sign on its own. I prefer a man who takes care of his body – and accepts it when he is too ill to work. A husbands who neglects his body is at risk for breaking it beyond repair. That is not good stewardship for the body the Lord has given you.
    I think some of the things you name to look for are consequences of the decisions a man makes. The reason for these decisions is what counts, not the outcome. If a man chooses a study without perspective, it is important to ask him why before marrying him. He can have a valid reason, though most men doesn’t.

  11. Viglet says:

    Economic or any other form of dependence is the worst reason to marry. People who are desperate, economic or otherwise, make transactional arrangements that turn bitter and do not last. These are not pleasing to husbands or wives and they are most certainly not pleasing to God.

    And by economic desperation, I do not necessarily mean “poor.” Many people with money act economically desperate. In fact, the more they earn, the more they want, the more they realize they have to lose, the less godly they become. And WK, as well intentioned as you may be, your writing is full of this. You write as though what is yours was created by you, all by you. To be constantly in fear of someone taking this away is to show little faith in God. What he gives isn’t income. It is is intelligence, and faithfulness, strength and spirituality. A godly man or woman can have everything taken away (as many people do–remember Job??) and their riches remain constant. In fact, the testing of that is often what shows the level of godliness. “Leave everything and follow me.” Remember? Material riches and even family, friends and degrees do not qualify. I’d like to see you write about that.

  12. Tom says:

    WK,
    Agree overall but three criticisms:

    1. If a man shouldn’t study education, but a man should send their children to private/Christian schools if possible, then who would be the only teachers in these private/Christian schools? By your standards, it would have to be only women teaching K-12. And I know you’ve written elsewhere about how boys need men teachers, etc. Can you clear that up?

    2. By your standards, a man really couldn’t go into pastoral ministry or missions work. Thus, it’s OK for men to make lots of money and support evangelism and missions but the only people actually putting feet on the ground in ministry work would be….who exactly?

    3. This is a smaller criticism: “not getting sick at all”. That just sounds strange. I think you should probably say, “Taking care of their bodies so that they don’t get sick as often” or “Exercising to stay healthy and to live longer to be able to provide”.

    • Mbelina says:

      I think Tom has made some very pertinent points.

    • 1. I think that the teaching laws should be revised so that people get degrees in the actual field and then do a 1-year degree at a teacher’s college. That way, a man can get a real degree in chemistry, work a couple of years in industry, then do a 1-year teacher college program and become a teacher. I think the increased rigor of that system would improve education quality and attract more men.

      2. See, here’s what I am arguing against: men who go to university thinking it will be easy, choosing an easy subject like English and then coasting through with Bs and Cs in easy courses and then having no way to be employed when they graduate. Now if the person is serious about doing evangelism and mission work, gets As and has a plan to make a living off of it, then that is fine. But I do not want men to pick easy things and then be unable to shoulder their responsibilities in a marriage. Marriage goes more smoothly when men take responsibility for their end of the bargain, part of which is making enough money to keep a wife home. (And women have to vote in a way that helps men to pay less in taxes and have more job opportunities – so women must vote to limit spending and wealth redistribution in order to help their husbands find these good-paying jobs)

      3. It’s an exaggeration. I go to work when I am sick and just eat cough drops all day and avoid talking to people. Some days I get migraines and I just keep swallowing Advil. One night, I had food poisoning and drove myself to the hospital while having major breathing problems and checked myself into the ER. I was at work by 9 AM, though. Men have to show up. They have to tough it out.

      • Tom says:

        1. I think that’s a fine idea but it isn’t reality and probably won’t be for decades to come (if ever) due to liberal control in education. This means that schools & Christian schools will be dominated by women teachers. Plus Christian schools pay crap for salaries anyways.

        2. Agreed on all points, but pastoral/missions jobs that pay as much as you would like to see are few and far between. So what should men do?

        3. Gotcha. That’s what I figured and that’s what I do the one or two times a year I get sick.

      • Viglet says:

        English is not an “easy” subject. You’d know this if you had to edit the incomprehensible stuff people write, day in, day out. Most people are terrible writers, and that includes many people in the science fields.

        • Tom says:

          This is a great point. The people who edit apologetics books are likely English majors. It’s actually pretty tough to break into major book editing without an English or similar degree.

          Sorry, Wintery. Not trying to be difficult or “troll-like” but thought these points were worth mentioning. Again, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote except for those things mentioned.

          • No, these are valuable comments. It’s important for me to be provocative to make a point, and then I appreciate people who are showing me where I’ve gone wrong.

    • Francine says:

      Personally, I find it irresponsible for someone who is possibly contagious to show up to work. While that person may put in his or her 8 hours, if it puts more than one other worker out of commission, there is an immediate net loss. I’ve seen it happen too many times at my workplace–someone shows up sick, and the next week, half the team is out.

      Especially in my occupation, where it is possible to simply work from home, it’s inexcusable. Stay home, work there, and keep your germs to yourself, thank you very much.

  13. Why did you only list “jobs” wouldn’t the peak of manliness be starting your own business and building it from the ground to leave it to your offspring? ijs

  14. temo says:

    Hi there WK, I have to admit I have only read the article twice and it really has been the comments which have helped me form an opinion about what is being said. However I take offence about not carrying debt and not taking out student loans. I live in New Zealand, a smaller country with a unitary state and a smaller economy than USA(an economy smaller than many individual states too), we don’t have the generous institutions or the “great society’ and the nobless oblige in the forms of scholarships and grants they provide.The reality for most will mean having to fund study with student loan scheme administered by central government. And the student loan scheme was set up with that idea in mind , to allow poorer student to study by lending money to them to study, I know I know that is quite twisted….
    The message you are sending seems to be setting winners and losers in education.The winners being those who complete their studies with lesser or no student loan. By comparison the divide between rich and poor has grown considerably since the scheme started.And we have a huge debate in our country over generational equity. Your blog falls short for not claiming a higher moral ground by making the argument for not making education an obstacle to marriage by way of college debt.instead it sounds stigmatising and self righteous..Don’t hate the player,hate the game.

  15. temo says:

    , I get your point about men needing to earn enough for the women to stay home, that’s fine.I wonder though how people expectations have changed from earlier generations.Or whether if they could live with less stuff or at least start off with little. I met a woman in her eighties, who as a young married couple during The Great Depression, started out without any furniture. They had a table which consisted of a wooden door with four beer crates on the corners as legs. In contrast to today where couples move into a new home and they expect brand new furniture.The family in traditional cultures pays for wedding and and in parts of the middle east they will be given a house. It is the man role to initiate the relationship, that’s what HeartCry Ministry Paul Washer says, the man should go and ask the dad for his permission. If she says yes then they arrange for how the couple can spend time but never be alone. Women who desire to be married, need to learn rest in God and on his timing, this is strength in itself.The bible says not many noble called, some good guys are overlooked out of disobedience; the women have heard from God but they don’t want to listen because they think the guy does not have good prospects, God will not be mocked. We know of a woman who married a man who had a mental illness and worked as a luggage handler, still together after 30 years. And he has only had one nervous break down all that time. He now owns a freehold home worth 500,000 .A point about marriage,God can put people together whatever their circumstances and he can makes all things right. It’s not right to judge a woman’s past who came to Christ after a prodigal journey. God’s is willing and able to give her a godly man who has been fatihful to God, prepared himself and kept himself for marriage. And take her as a wife and bring up any children that she brings to the marriage from her past as his own. I have friends who are testimony to this., t

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