Wintery Knight

…integrating Christian faith and knowledge in the public square

Courting rules: how to tell if a woman is a committed Christian

I was having a chat with a friend of mine a few days back and we were discussing how a man can tell if a woman is marriage material. Now this friend is not yet a Christian, but he is a conservative. So I suggested to him this list of questions (below) that I ask women when I want to test them.

Before we look at the list, let me just point out what kinds of questions are bad. You want to avoid asking leading questions that will allow the person to just give a yes or no answer. Don’t ask “who did you vote for?” – that’s much too easy to fake. You want them to argue for their positions on different issues at length, and in their own words, and with reference to their own experiences.

It’s also a good idea for men to observe a candidate’s behavior over time to see if it’s consistent with her answers. Also, I think that even if the woman gets none of the questions right, but begins to ask you for books to read so that she can answer them, then that counts as a right answer. You just have to make sure she follows through, though. I sent one woman a book on Christianity and capitalism for her Christmas gift in 2009 and it took her 18 months for her to write the book review! In all honesty, these questions are pretty tough, so I think that the best you can hope for is that the person becomes curious. I had to learn the answers over many years. Having said that, you could probably cover most the topics with about $40 worth of introductory books.

When scoring the answers, you can award bonus points for extras, e.g. – naming any scholar as an authority (especially non-Christian scholars), referencing a book or a debate, referencing peer-reviewed papers, listing and refuting other points of view, recounting debates she herself has had with opponents, and pointing to her own past writings. Best of all is passion and aggression in answering the questions. Sometimes it is a good idea to pretend to disagree with her, or to pretend to be unconvinced, and then have her try to convince you. Another good thing to look for is susceptibility and vulnerability – she should have real feelings about these topics – it shows that she’s invested in them.

Note: these questions can be used to test Christian men, as well.

QUESTIONS

1. Cosmology

What scientific evidence would you point to to show that God created the universe OR that God fine-tuned the universe, or parts of the universe, for intelligent life?

SAMPLE ANSWER: The big bang theory, the fine-tuning argument, galactic habitability, stellar habitability, or terrestrial habitability.

BONUS POINTS: referencing hard evidence like light element abundances, cosmic microwave background radiation, or specific instances of fine-tuning.

WHY IT MATTERS: She can’t be a Christian unless she knows God exists, and that can’t just be based on feelings and community. An awareness of the scientific evidence shows a seriousness about spiritual things – that her belief is rooted in objective reality, not in subjective feelings, culture, community, etc. It’s not “her truth”, it’s “the truth”. If she doesn’t know why she believes, then she can’t be relied upon to make decisions as a Christian, especially in stressful situations. There is always going to be a conflict between doing what one feels like and doing what is consistent with reality. Having scientific facts helps a person to do what they ought to do.

2. Intelligent Design

Explain the concept of intelligent design and explain how it applies to the i) origin of life OR ii) to the fossil record.

SAMPLE ANSWER: Explain the concept of specified complexity and Dembski’s explanatory filter, then explain how it applies to (i) amino acid sequencing or the double helix, OR (ii) to the sudden origin of animal phyla in the Cambrian explosion.

BONUS POINTS: Ideally, for the origin of life question, she’s going to mention things like UV radiation, chirality, cross-reactions and peptide bonds, then calculate the approximate probabilities for generating a protein by chance. For the Cambrian explosion, she should graph out the introduction of phyla over time, and explain the Ediacaran fauna and why they are not precursors to the Cambrian fauna. Bonus points for bashing theistic evolution, or talking about the early earth environment and the problems with forming amino acids.

WHY IT MATTERS: Darwinian evolution is bad science because it is really just philosophy (naturalism) masquerading as science. You can’t marry anyone who pre-supposes a materialist view of metaphysics like naturalists do, and then allows that philosophical assumption to overrule the scientific evidence. You don’t want to be paired up with someone who lets their prejudices overturn data.

3. The problems of evil and suffering

Assuming that Christianity is true, why do you think that God would allow suffering and evil in the world? Distinguish between human evil and natural evil in your answer. Also explain what role you think God’s permission of evil and suffering has in maturing Christians.

SAMPLE ANSWER: Define the deductive and inductive problems of evil, explains several different responses to them, such as free will, character formation, natural law, the ripple effect, etc. Mention the burden of proof for claims that certain evils are gratuitous, i.e. – noseeums.

BONUS POINTS: explaining how evil relates to Christian theology and God’s purposes for humans being knowledge of him and not just happiness, talking about Jesus’ own suffering and the meaning and purpose of it. More bonus points for pointing out how atheists cannot even complain about evil without assuming objective morality, which requires a moral lawgiver.

WHY IT MATTERS: Lots of nasty things can happen in a marriage. Children can get sick or die, jobs can be lost, and so on. It helps when you are dealing with a person who expects it and will not jettison their responsibilities and belief in Christ in order to pursue happiness unencumbered. The main thing is that the woman thinks that the purpose of life is to know God, and that suffering and evil play a role in gaining knowledge of God. You definitely do not want to marry someone who thinks that the purpose of life is happiness, and that God is some big bearded grandfather in the sky who just wants to hand out goodies to people and make sure they are having a good time regardless of what they choose to do.

4. The moral argument

What is the is-ought fallacy? What is the difference between moral objectivism and moral relativism? Give one reason why moral relativism is false. Give one reason why an atheist cannot rationally ground prescriptive morality. Explain why objective morality relates to God’s existence.

SAMPLE ANSWER: Explain the is-ought fallacy. Explain objective and subjective morality. Discuss the reformer’s dilemma and how it refutes relativism. Explain that atheism requires materialism, and materialism denies free will – so moral choices are impossible. Outline the moral argument.

BONUS POINTS: Give more than one reason where only one was asked for, refute attempts to assert objective morality on atheism, explain how moral obligations are related to God’s design for humans.

WHY IT MATTERS: You can’t marry a person who thinks that the moral law is not a brake on their desire to be happy. There are going to be times in the marriage when self-sacrifice is required by the moral law – either for you, for God, or for the children. It will not be easy to be moral then, so you are looking for someone who thinks that morality is real, and not subject to their feelings and whims. It might be worth asking the person when she has had to do the right thing when it was against her self-interest, like those valedictorians who name Jesus in their speeches and then get censored.

5. The resurrection of Jesus

Assume you are talking to a non-Christian. Explain how you would make a case for the bodily resurrection of Jesus on historical grounds. This person does not accept the Bible as inspired and/or inerrant.

SAMPLE ANSWER: Explain the criteria for establishing minimal facts / historical bedrock, list a set of minimal facts, explain why they pass the criteria, propose at least two naturalistic alternatives to the resurrection, and disprove them. MUST mention 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 in order to pass.

BONUS POINTS: listing atheist scholars who support each minimal fact, discussing N.T. Wright’s work on the Jewish concept of resurrection, referencing Richard Bauckham’s work on the gospels as eyewitness testimony, mentioning the pre-suppositions (naturalism, relativism) of liberal scholars like Crossan and Borg.

WHY IT MATTERS: The resurrection is the cornerstone of Christian belief. A person cannot encounter skeptics and not be able to defend the resurrection on historical grounds to them. The resurrection matters to how people act: they act completely differently depending on whether they believe that this life is all there is, or that this life is just a precursor to eternal life with God. You want someone who takes the long-term perspective.

6. World religions

Name two major world religions and argue against them using either the laws of logic, scientific evidence or historical evidence. Explain the concept of middle knowledge, and why it is relevant to the problem of religious pluralism.

SAMPLE ANSWER: Refute Theravada Buddhism with the big bang, or refute Islam with the crucifixion of Jesus, etc. MUST mention specific beliefs of that religion that are testable, and not just argue that they reject Christianity and are therefore false. Explain how middle knowledge reconciles free will and divine sovereignty, and that it also helps to solve the problem of people who have never heard the gospel.

BONUS POINTS: Using evidence that is universally accepted by people outside of that religion. Using scientific evidence. Referencing Acts 17:27 or other Bible passages when explaining middle knowledge. Mentioning objections to middle knowledge, such as the grounding objection.

WHY IT MATTERS: Many younger Christians today believe that Christianity is moralistic therapeutic deism. They think that the purpose of religion is to have good feelings and to be nice to other people and to make other people feel good. It’s all about feelings. You need to make sure that she knows how to make people feel bad and is comfortable doing it, with evidence. Middle knowledge also grounds the person’s willingness to see people as being responsible for their acceptance or rejection of Christ. Instead of taking a hands-off fatalistic approach to salvation, someone who accepts middle knowledge is going to take persuasion seriously and expend effort to try to change the people around them.

7. Abortion

How would you establish that the unborn are fully human and deserve protection? Explain three pro-abortion arguments and then show why they are false. Name three incremental pro-life policies that you would introduce if you were a legislator.

SAMPLE ANSWER: Use the SLED test and the law of biogenesis. Talk about the DNA signature of the unborn being distinct from the mother. Explain and refute the back-alley abortions argument, the it’s the woman’s body argument, the Judith Jarvis Thompson violinist argument, etc. Legislation would be parental notification, banning funding for abortion providers, mandatory sonograms, etc.

BONUS POINTS: Refute more pro-abortion arguments, reference specific legislation that is in-flight or was recently signed into law. Experiences protesting abortion or debating abortion with pro-abortionists. Experience counseling a post-abortive or crisis pregnancy woman. Mentioning biological details of foetus development.

WHY IT MATTERS: Basically, because people who think that sex is for recreation, and that it is ok to kill children to avoid any limits on the pursuit of happiness are not qualified for marriage. You can’t enter into an intimate commitment with someone who is willing to commit murder in order to get out of the consequences of their own selfish pursuit of pleasure. That is not going to work in a marriage – you need someone who makes good decisions, avoids harming others, is chaste and self-controlled, and takes responsibility for her actions when they go awry.

8. Marriage

Explain the public purposes of marriage, and then outline three threats to marriage and explain what legislation you would propose to neutralize these threats. What choices should people make before marriage to make sure they will have a stable, loving marriage?

SAMPLE ANSWER: Some public purposes of marriage are i) to force moral constraints on sexual activity, ii) to produce the next generation of humans, iii) to provide children with a stable, loving environment in which to grow up. Three threats to marriage are i) cohabitation, ii) no-fault divorce – which leads to fatherlessness, and iii) same-sex marriage. There are others, too. For legislation, there are things like tax incentives, shared parenting laws, school choice to de-monopolize politicized public schools, etc. Pre-marriage behaviors are things like chastity, experience with children, having lots of savings, being physically fit, etc. Having a degree in experimental science, math or economics is excellent for a woman. Avoid artsy degrees, especially English.

BONUS POINTS: Name more threats to marriage, explain the effects of fatherlessness on children, explain how divorce courts work, explain how socialism impacts the family through taxation and wealth redistribution, explain what happens to women and children after a divorce.

WHY IT MATTERS: It’s important for people who want to get married that they understand that marriage takes time and effort, and it requires both spouses to prepare for marriage, to be diligent at choosing a good spouse, and to understand what spouses and children need in order to stay engaged.

9. Children

Explain a person you admire and then tell me what you would do as a mother in order to produce that person from one of your children. What are some people and laws that you would change to make your job easier?

SAMPLE ANSWER: Jay Richards. Jay Richards is one of the most well-rounded Christian scholars operating today. He has knowledge of multiple areas, including economics and science. To make a Jay Richards, you need to be very careful about his education – which could mean homeschooling and saving money for later university tuition, as well as exposing him to apologetics and debates at an earlier age. He would need to have the dedicated attention of his mother for the first two years of his life, at least. Some laws that would help would be lower taxes, school choice, and academic freedom laws.

BONUS POINTS: Explaining how different things like day care, public schools, divorce, etc. harm children. Explaining how mother and fathers contribute to the child’s moral, cognitive, spiritual, etc. development at different times. Explain how the child is harmed if both parents are not present and engaged to play these roles.

WHY IT MATTERS: Marriage is an enormous sacrifice for a man. Not only is there the risk of divorce, but wives and children are very expensive. A man can serve God fine as a bachelor. He has to have compelling reasons why getting married would serve God more than staying single. Producing influential children seems to be one of the major reasons for a man to get married, and he needs to see evidence that his wife is on board with that.

10. Husbands

Explain the roles of a man in a marriage, and tell me some of the things you would do in order to help your man to achieve those roles. What groups would oppose your husband from fulfilling those roles, and what have you done in your life to prepare yourself to help your husband in his roles? What are some of the most important things that a man needs from a woman, and what specific things should a wife do to provide them?

SAMPLE ANSWER: Men are supposed to be protectors, providers and moral/spiritual leaders. In order to help men to be protectors, women have to give them time to study to discern truth from lie, and support their ability to be physically strong, and to own firearms. It is also a good idea for women to have a positive view of good men who use force to restrain evil, as with the American military. Women should support the use of force against radical Islam and terrorists, as well. In order to help men to be providers, women have to advocate for fiscal conservatism in the public square. That would mean advocating for lower taxes, less government spending and smaller government. It would also mean being frugal in the home and helping the man to move ahead at work. If the children are up and out of the house, it could mean going back to work or starting a business to help make ends meet – or monitoring investments. For a man to be a moral and spiritual leader, a woman has to be supporting of him making moral judgments in the home, disciplining the children, holding her accountable for moral errors, and for making exclusive truth claims when it comes to spiritual things. She should not censor him when he gets into debates about spiritual things, even if other people who disagree feel bad – so long as he is not being a jerk. Her goal is not to be popular or liked, but to support her husband in his roles. The most important thing a man needs is respect, and that means treating him as important and significant, being grateful for his contributions, soliciting his opinion on things, being mindful of his male nature, which is more visual and sexual.

BONUS POINTS: Having read “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”, “Men and Marriage”, “Love and Economics” and “Taken Into Custody”. More bonus points for having written about what she learned about men and marriage from books like that. The goal here is for her to have a real awareness and sympathy for what men are facing as husbands and fathers, and to have an idea of what women can do to support them in their roles.

WHY IT MATTERS: As a man, you have certain needs – the biggest need is for respect. If you are thinking of marrying a woman who cannot define respect, and doesn’t know how to give you respect, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt. The more she views marriage as a joint project with specific goals and external challenges, the more understanding and support you will get. No one wants to fly a plane with someone who doesn’t know how to fly a plane, fix a plane or navigate a plane. The more she knows about men and marriage, the better it will go for you – and the children.

Parting thoughts

This list is not exhaustive, it’s just to give you an idea of the kinds of things you should be looking for. A lot of it is the attitude. You are looking for a woman who does not shift blame onto you, who takes responsibility when she is wrong, who argues using logic and evidence, who loses arguments gracefully, and wins arguments gracefully, and who loves you and cares for you even if you are fighting. If the woman is resentful and doesn’t want to learn anything to deepen her faith, then drop her and find someone who will learn – it will be much better for you to partner with someone lovable and helpful, instead of a selfish lazy feminist.

If I were making a list for women, I would emphasize different things more centered around the specific roles that men play in the marriage – asking for his resume, work history, savings, investments, past relationships with women, parenting ability, self-defense ability, mentoring ability, and especially on moral issues and Christian truth claims.The most important thing that a woman needs is love, and the man should be ready to speak about love at length, and explain how he is going to provide her with love during the courtship and during the marriage. Women need to know that they are significant and desired by the man.

UPDATE: Commenter straightright recommends this post on Dalrock blog, which contains general interview questions for a wife candidate, motivated by the concerns that men have about marriage. I really recommend this post.

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57 Responses

  1. Maureen says:

    Hmm…that is a very daunting list. The title troubles me. The impression I got from this post is that this is an evaluation of what you would require in a wife—yet the title says this is a way to “tell if a woman is a committed Christian.” Are you suggesting that if a woman can’t defend the Bible’s claims using big bang cosmology or eloquently debunk other religions then she must not be a committed or “true” believer? (The same for a man put up against this test.) Or is it just that she wouldn’t meet your own personal requirements (which you are totally entitled to)?

    My mother and grandmother would not pass this test as you’ve designed it—yet they are two of the godliest women I know. They are full of wisdom and grace and are deeply devoted to Christ. They would deny it out of humility, but I’m convinced they truly fulfillment of the Prov. 31 descriptions. So I’m wondering if you would clarify what you intend to evaluate by this test—a person’s faith and commitment to Christ or their suitability as a mate?

    Two more things I’m curious about: How exactly do you go about administering this test and what kind of success have you had with it? Also, why should my “artsy” English degree qualify me as a woman to avoid as a potential wife/mother?

    • I think that if a woman has the intelligence to learn how to answer those questions, and does not answer those questions, even after she has had a period of time to learn the answers after becoming a Christian, then she is not a committed Christian.

      Similarly, if a man has the athletic ability to learn how to play tennis, but he does not learn how to play tennis, even after he has had a period of time to learn how to play tennis, and yet cannot play tennis, then he is not a committed tennis player.

      Surely in this day and age, anyone who claims to be a Christian is aware that some people are not Christians, because they do not think that Christianity is true. Everyone has to decide how they are going to deal with that fact – how they will deal with the fact that God’s existence is denied, and his character is disrespected, by a large number of people. Your mother and grandmother are exempt – they didn’t live in a time when they had to face these challenges.

      A woman may have feelings and experiences about Christianity from singing in the church, listening to pastors drone on with pleasant sounding platitudes, and hanging out with a group of people in a stylish building, but that is not a living faith. It’s selfishness.

      Here, read this:
      http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/why-wont-christians-defend-their-faith-in-public/

      I administer the test over a period of time by raising stories from the news or from the progress of science or by recommending a resource because of something they have told me. I have had enormous success. (See my comment below) It works on women who actually think that Christianity is true. Obviously it is not going to work on people who think of Christianity as life-enhancement or a community activity or a subjective source of comfortable feelings that must not be proved out, etc. But then, those people are not mature Christians.

      Most people avoid this approach and accomplish nothing then they get the idea that my approach won’t work. This is because some people are so driven by the need to be popular and to feel happy and to be perceived of as kind that they want to be merely suggestive instead of persuasive. They want to emote instead of mentor. And that’s why we have a massive rate of apostasy among the young people. Feelings, postmodernism, relativism, etc. are the new norm in churches. We don’t want to offend. We don’t want to make people work. We want to do what’s easy. No chemistry, math and physics for us – we like Christian poetry, contemporary Christian music, apocalyptic fiction and Dan Brown novels. We want compassion and acceptance and peer approval. Everyone’s view is valid for them. That’s why Christianity is dying in the West.

      • Maureen says:

        That helps clarify. I should note that I very much appreciate the need for apologetics and I agree that the overemphasis on emotions and feelings in church is a big problem. I am an old-earth creationist (which seems to be your view as well, but correct me if I’m mistaken) and am politically conservative. So we would probably agree on a lot issues.

        However, I still don’t think it’s a good idea to presume that if someone (man or woman) can’t answer these questions the way you think they should (based on what you listed as acceptable answers) then they must not be a committed/serious/true Christian. After all, many of the things you list as acceptable answers seem to be driven more by your personal preferences and point of view than by a scriptural standard.

        For example, you mentioned that a woman should have a degree in math, science, or economics, but should be avoided if she has an “artsy” degree, “especially English.” I understand if you have a personal preference for ladies with math/science/econ degrees, but how in the world does a woman’s college degree determine her commitment to faith or her suitability as a wife/mother in general? Forgive me for harping on that point, but as an English major myself, I find that idea rather offensive and would welcome some clarification.

        My mother and grandmother are both very much alive–so they are still facing the challenges of this day and age. Is it their ages then that makes them exempt? How do you decide that?

  2. straightright says:

    I’m not sure I would start with everything in this list. If a gal was reasonably well-informed about many of these things I think that would be great. If I found a gal who did know all the items you listed, though, I would be elated.

    I’ve been reading quite a bit in the so-called manosphere, and my favorite is the blog dalrock.wordpress.com

    Dalrock lists some questions that your future spouse should answer in an appropriate way. Sorry for the following dump, though I think they are important so I’ll list them from one of his blog posts:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/interviewing-a-prospective-wife-part-ii/

    —————————————-

    Does she take marriage seriously? Are her expectations in line with yours?

    What is the best part of marriage? Is she more interested in the wedding itself or the ring than being your wife?

    Will she take your name? I can’t personally think of a convincing reason to marry a woman who wouldn’t or who struggled with this question.

    What does marriage mean to her? She’s asking you to sign on the dotted line. What’s in this contract?

    What is the role of a husband? What are the obligations of a husband? You want to be on the same page here, but this is also a setup for the next question. If she has a long list for you and a short one for her, that is very telling.
    Likewise if she rattles off the list for you but struggles to form the list for herself, you’ve just learned something.

    What is the role of a wife? What are the obligations of a wife? The specifics are important here, but her overall attitude to the idea of having obligations is critical as well. Does the idea of having a role to conform to or duties make her bristle? This is also your best opportunity to frame the roles the way you would expect them to be.

    What if you are “in the mood” and she isn’t (aka “wifely duty”)? I hesitated to include this, but I feel it really should be there. Part of what this will show is her general willingness to consider your needs over her own feelings (altruism) and her tendency to look for opportunities for compromise. This will also give you a hint about her perception of male sexuality. You also want to smoke out a potential to use denial of sex for power purposes. Lastly, for men sex in marriage really is love. How would you feel about a man who decided not to hug or kiss his wife, or refused to tell her he loved her?

    What is her attitude about casual sex? Does she have a history of following her ‘tingle’?

    What does she think about the double standard regarding promiscuity? Frame this with sympathy to the feminist perspective. This is a bit of a trick question. The right answer is disgust with promiscuity across the board. The wrong answer is an instinct to shelter sluts from judgment for their actions. This question has the bonus of drawing out a feminist vibe she might be concealing, although in the scheme of things a little feminism in a young woman isn’t the end of the world. But you should know what you are getting into.

    Why does she think so many women have to date “bad boys” before they learn to look for good guys? Again, a bit of a trick question and should be framed non judgmentally. Ideally she should have disgust with those girls who chased alphas while she looked for something different. A convincing story about why she made this transition isn’t what you want to hear from a potential wife, but you should frame this question in such a way so this seems like a perfectly acceptable answer.

    Does she see divorce as failure? Is she willing to make judgments about others who divorce?

    What are acceptable reasons for divorce? This should be a short list of no nonsense answers. I’m thinking infidelity, real and persistent abuse, persistent gambling and/or addiction, etc. Scary answers include the standard “just not happy”, “falling out of love”, “growing apart”, etc. These mean she will dump you the second things get tough or something or someone more interesting comes along.

    What would she tell your children about divorce? My wife and I were at a Thanksgiving celebration where our then 4 year old daughter met a boy who called his dad by his first name. When she asked him why, he told her about his mom’s divorce and remarriage. He explained that sometimes “mommies and daddies just stop loving each other”. She was distraught for over a week before she came to us. She was terrified we would just stop loving each other like the other kid’s parents. We told her “He’s wrong, his mommy was a brat!”. And we also told her not to say this to the boy or other kids in the same situation or she would hurt their feelings. After this she was fine. Tell her this story and see what her reaction is. Is she more protective of the frightened child, or the mommy who wanted to start a new life?

    Will she judge other women who divorce frivolously? Unfortunately it should be easy to come up with an example of this, so mention it in conversation and see what her reaction is. How would she feel about attending the second (or third) wedding of this woman?

    —————————————-

    You obviously wouldn’t sit her down and go through these one by one. You would do it with tact and suave. But – you would still do it.

  3. Wintery, how about some basic principles like:

    (1) Does my prospective wife love God and find her joy and delight in Him?

    (2) Does she think about people—including herself, me, the “widows and orphans” of our society, and potentially children—in the context of the kingdom of God?

    (3) Could we comfortably attend and serve in the same church?

    (4) Do we agree on husband–wife roles in the family (whether complementarian or egalitarian), or can some reasonable compromise be developed?

    To be blunt, it’s much more important to be married to someone whose concerns, life, and way of thinking are orientated around God and a joyful hope in Him than to be married to someone who can defend Christianity and conservative politics well.

    Now, sure, there’s certainly a need for people in our society to know how to defend Christianity, but there’s nothing uniquely Christian about “a woman who does not shift blame onto you, who takes responsibility when she is wrong, who argues using logic and evidence, who loses arguments gracefully, and wins arguments gracefully, and who loves you and cares for you even if you are fighting.” Atheists can do that. The need for apologetics comes after and under the need for affections for God as He has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ.

    • But what is that affection based on, if it is not based on knowledge? There are many women who are functional atheists who nevertheless go to church to sing Handel’s Messiah at Christmas, and who would not lift a finger to read a book to defend God’s existence. People can cash Christianity out as being a personal hobby that is solely to make them feel good. They can go to a nice church building. They can read comforting words in an old wisdom book. They can have feelings and emotions while singing uplifting praise hymns in a group with others. They can feel a sense of belonging by being with other people. They can listen to cool band music. They can listen to reassuring words from a pastor. They can do all of that and still not care about God one bit.

      And in fact, many do. I have been getting hate mail all day from Christian women who refuse to read anything even if not reading means that their children will fall away from and that God’s reputation will go undefended. Christianity, to these feminists, is about feeling good. That’s it. And a nice building, a group of people, and some worship is all it is to them. And that’s why they resent these questions. Because they don’t want to have to do anything to participate in a relationship with God that involves self-sacrifice and work. They don’t want to be effective. They want to be entertained and amused.

      My list of questions detects women who are not serious Christians. And men who are serious Christians should avoid such women, if they hope to serve God. Do not be yoked to an unbeliever. There are lots of unbelievers who have a great time in church.

      • Maureen says:

        Hi Wintery Knight,

        As I pointed out in my previous comment (which I’m still hoping you’ll respond to), there are genuinely godly women (and men!) out there who would fail the test you’ve outlined in this post. It’s one thing if your test is something you use to choose a wife, but why should your test be the thing that measures the depth and quality of a person’s relationship to Christ? (I’m sorry if this bluntly worded, but I am really curious about why you think this way.)

      • I hear you, bro. I think religious affections should be based on (a) a real and genuine experience of the Holy Spirit’s work in a person’s life, and (b) a knowledge and understanding of God and what He has done in the person of Jesus. Want to know whether someone has genuine joy and delight in God? Pray with them, read the Bible with them, evangelise with them, grapple with tough questions about Christianity with them, talk about personal struggles with them, and you’ll see where they’re at.

        Your assumption seems to be that all women who are “serious Christians” should be committed to apologetics—defending the existence of God, defending God’s reputation (which sounds a bit dodgy to me: God’s reputation doesn’t need to be defended, His Gospel needs to be proclaimed), and so on. And, to be honest, I don’t think all men and women are called to become apologists. Sure, every Christian should be able to give an answer to anyone who asks them for the basis of their hope: “God raised Jesus from the dead.” But that doesn’t mean that every Christian is necessarily called to be able to give deep philosophical arguments for the existence of God, or to defend a certain model of time, or to outline the different models of Big Bang cosmology.

        I have friends, both men and women, who are Christians deeply committed to God and His kingdom who know that He exists on the basis of personal experience (and there’s nothing wrong with that, as per Alvin Plantinga, Matt Flannagan, and others), but couldn’t lay out a detailed argument for the resurrection of Jesus Christ with premises and a conclusion if they tried. Should we as Christians read and study and strive to become better at philosophy, theology, and Christian doctrine? Definitely. (I’m involved with several groups in Melbourne to do just that.) But the basis for our faith is God’s revelation to us in Jesus Christ, not the kalam cosmological argument. If I were to marry, I would want to marry a woman deeply in tune with God and with a passion for His kingdom work—not someone merely able to outline Christian theology, defend the basics of our faith, and vote conservative in national elections.

        • Not just apologetics, but an authentic Christian worldview. They should let what they read in the Bible spill over into politics, economics, marriage, parenting, foreign policy, and so on. I think people treat Christianity as a private affair – a hobby – that is meant to make them have happy feelings and a sense of community. That’s not what Christianity is.

          Please see this post:
          http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/why-wont-christians-defend-their-faith-in-public/

          Like it or not, we are being challenged. How a person responds to those challenges tells a lot about how they view their relationship with God. Is it take, take, take? Or is it give and take? This is important to check before you marry the woman. If she doesn’t treat God with respect and care about his goals, why think she would do it for you?

  4. Stuart says:

    Not every devout Christian woman is going to be an apologist with an arsenal of intellectual arguments. I don’t think you do yourself any favors by restricting the sea of prospective fish in this way. I’m all for loving God with the mind, but apologetics isn’t the only way to love God with the mind, and loving God with the mind isn’t the only way to love God. Really this test is about finding a woman with similar interests and morality to yourself, as well as someone who is can be a capable conversation partner.

    • I think there’s also a distinction to be made between thinking “Christianly,” which all Christians are called to do, and developing an arsenal of Christian intellectual arguments. Love God with your mind, yes; but I think that’s more about exercising your mind that you might delight in God more and foster others to do the same than about developing syllogisms to defend God’s existence.

    • No, I have a specific set of goals that I am trying to achieve, and I am not going to squander my time, treasure and talents playing house.

      Here’s a snapshot:
      http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/why-wont-christians-defend-their-faith-in-public/

      I am looking for someone to help me do that. I am not looking to make a woman happy and ignore what God wants. We are all his ambassadors and we need to take that obligation seriously. Baking cookies for Jesus is not the same as quantifying the improbability of forming a protein from amino acids by chance. Jesus hollering on Sundays (as my friend Denyse O’Leary calls it) is not the same as being appointed to the Supreme Court of the United States and then casting the deciding vote to reverse Roe v. Wade.

      Many women may be so concerned about their own happiness that they may not want to sacrifice in order to achieve something for God. But I don’t have to marry them and knit my life, my soul, my fortune and my sacred honor to someone who will not fight for Christ and his Kingdom.

      If I cannot do more by partnering with a woman to have a marriage and family, then I’m better off staying single and continue to fund debates, lectures, scholars, etc. and doing my writing. It’s better to have some good effect than to be stifled by a non-Christian who redirects my labor to non-Christian goals.

  5. philwynk says:

    Wintery,

    Women have advantages over men in the arena of emotions, feelings, intuition, and social interaction. When you say “She can’t be a Christian unless she knows God exists, and that can’t just be based on feelings and community,” you are absolutely, dead wrong. Many very decent, very committed, very spiritual women will have a robust relationship with Christ based on PRECISELY those things — feelings and community — and they’ll know him far better than you will with your grasp of cosmology.

    So when you say “An awareness of the scientific evidence shows a seriousness about spiritual things,” what you’re doing is pretending that spirituality is primarily an intellectual pursuit. You’ve shortchanged God. He’s more than enough for your intellect, yes, but He’s also more than enough for your emotions, and your social life, and all other aspects of life. If you live by the intellect, you’ll never be more than a stunted Christian. And if it’s difficult for you to extend yourself beyond intellect, you need an intuitive woman that much more urgently to complete you.

    • Phil, please give me a list of people who you have hired to do work for you who formed their beliefs about the problem based on feelings, intuitions, and singing in groups.

      Make sure you name the auto mechanics, dentists, investment counselors, lawyers, and doctors. Go on, I’ll wait here for your list.

      There isn’t going to be a list. And do you know why? Because you think that cars, teeth, court cases, sicknesses, investments, and so on are REAL – they REALLY EXIST. But you think that God’s existence and character are fundamentally different from real-world areas of knowledge, and so feelings and singing are fine for knowing about him and handling a relationship with him. And any woman who leaves her relationship with God stalled at feeling and singing is doing religion for her own happiness, and not at all to serve God effectively.

  6. [...] Knight, a conservative (and single) blogger, has written a post entitled Courting rules: how to tell if a woman is a committed Christian. Sounds awkward? Yeah, it really is. It’s not really clear what topic Knight is trying to [...]

  7. straightright says:

    In WK’s defense I would say that you would want someone who is at least informed, and would know where to get some answers if questions arose. I don’t think it’s acceptable for someone to just say that they “have a warming in the bosom” when another person asks why they should believe in God. Likewise, your teenager comes to you with a hard question, on suffering, evil, the resurrection, etc, and you don’t want to answer with: “pray more”. I would like someone who has a deep experience with God, but who’s faith will not be tossed around whenever some challenging question comes up. Who can at least give some reasons for faith. Our faith and trust is ultimately based on the work of the Holy Spirit, but that doesn’t mean we don’t know the basics, or why Christianity is reasonable.

    • Oh they don’t have to know any of the answers right away. I once pursued a relationship with a fatherless liberal woman who was a new Christian. She had had an abortion and was just coming off a failed cohabitation effort. She was horrible at all the questions, and by the end, she could answer all of them. She had a degree in English, and I chastised her about how useless it was. So now she is in law school.

      There was another girl whose head was filled with all kinds of craziness. She didn’t want to do a degree at all, but I chastised her, and she started a degree in Communication. This is a silly degree, so I chastised her to do something hard with math. She just finished her BA in Economics, and now she is off to do an MA in Public Policy. She does all of this while holding down a job in media. (A high-ranking job) I try to help her study for exams, and I have no idea what she is talking about – and that’s GOOD.

      Here’s what I do. I find women who want to grow and I invest time, money and effort into them. And they grow. I send them white roses to encourage them, and I talk to them about everything. Just the other night I spoke to someone on Skype for 10.25 hours – kept her up all night! I really have very little to do with their success – the good ones do it all by themselves as soon as you ask them the questions. They hear the questions, they realize that these things are important, and they apply themselves.

      I once knew a woman who read 4 Thomas Sowell books in 8 weeks. Another one who comments here read about a dozen books in a row on her own accord – she asked me for a list, I gave her the list, and then a few months later, nearly a dozen books read. I could go on. Christian women are AWESOME, and Christian men need to get off their asses and start motivating Christian women to reach their full potential, whether we marry them or not.

  8. It’s always really funny to me to read your perspective on courting and marriage, WK. Simply because on that patch of ice, you have no idea how deep the water is and the sea monsters that lurk.
    I’m happy you think Dalrock’s post is good. You should read his entire site because then, maybe, you can start learning something about the female of the species, yes even if they’re Christians.
    Good luck, young ‘un.

    • Fred, I would never, ever, ever try this stuff on the vast majority of women. I have my eyes open. I’ve read Stephen Baskerville and Christina Hoff Sommers.

  9. Ari says:

    I guess this makes it a whole lot easier to be a Jew. To be a good Jew, you just have to keep G-d’s commandments. There’s no need for interviews about how somebody “really” feels or thinks.

    Does she do what it takes? Yes/No.

    Seems much simpler to me.

    • Well, in Judaism, I believe that the emphasis is on doing good works – on following the law. But in Christianity, I believe that the emphasis is on truth, and good works emerge from true beliefs about God’s character. That is not at all to say that I do not respect the good works that Jews do. I do respect them as persons, and I am thankful for their friendship, and I consider observant Jews to be strong allies and friends.

      Also, everyone should click on this click and buy this book “Bias Incident” that Ari wrote. I have the book. I have read the book. The book is awesome. It is a great introduction to what happens to naive Christian and Jewish kids who go off to college and get creamed. I recommend that my Christian friends augment Ari’s book with this book by Jonathan Morrow, entitled “Welcome to College“, although Ari does not necessarily endorse this book.

  10. *SIGH* I’m never getting married… :o/

  11. gentlewarrior says:

    Hm…interesting topic. You men want a wife who not only has an extensive knowledge of apologetics, but also has an extensive view of men’s sexuality and is a virgin. Right. Keep dreaming. I guess you want her 125 lbs. also as well as cute.
    What if she actually knows more than you do about theology? What would that do to your ego? Wouldn’t it be better if you taught her yourself?

    Let’s set the record straight. I agree 100% in giving a future spouse a test to tell if they are a committed believer or not. But there is much more which will let you know whether or not she is a committed believer or not.
    1. Does she bring up verses which are applicable in casual conversations?
    2. Does she have a regular devotional time, and read through her bible on a yearly basis?
    3. Is she committed to evangelism and to staying single if that means serving her Lord to win the lost?
    4. Is she kind? Is she forgiving when you goof up?
    5. How does she speak of those in her most intimate circle?
    6. Is she judgemental? or merciful to others…as well as to you.
    7. Is her greatest achievement and goal in life to see you happy, successful, loved and nurtured, as well as your children?
    8. Does she have personal boundaries in her life with you, as well as with men in her past?

    Life experience teaches one a great deal. I, myself, am 47, divorced (ex husband had 3 affairs, third one was the last straw) mother of 2 grown daughters who both love the Lord. To me, this is my greatest treasure in life in that both daughters love the Lord and serve him. If you are to find a woman, do you want her to evangelize your children? or be a great theologian? Some days she can’t do both, and cook meals for you, wash your clothes, tend the garden, and readily greet you when you come to bed in the evenings.

    Pick what is most important to you, and prioritize down from there, unless, you yourself have all the characteristics of perfection you are looking for in her.

  12. Jack says:

    This blog post should be required reading by all Christian youth (and youth pastors)!

  13. Perla says:

    What’s wrong with having an artsy degree?

    • Well, it tells you something about whether the person is used to having to think logically and rationally and whether they think in terms of true and false and think that truth is objective. An engineering student or a physics student has to work a lot harder to earn a degree than a theater student or a journalism student or a psychology student or a history student. These subjects are easy. Quantitative subjects are more work to study, and that’s why they pay better. It is much easier to argue with a person who has a math/science background – they are grounded in objective truth. Whereas with English/journalism/etc. it’s all subjective. It’s all doctrine.

      For example, the worst degree is an English degree. English itself was fine 30+ years ago, when people read English in order to gain wisdom by looking at the intent of the authors of classics in order to gain wisdom. But now English departments are all compromised by a variety of secular leftist ideologies like postmodernism, feminism, socialism, etc. They don’t even study the great books and if they do, they don’t study them to get the wisdom out of it.

      The value to marriage is that studying hard topics shows how much a person rises to challenges and does hard things and can argue more rationally.

      • Perla says:

        Oh okay. I have a B.A. in Studio Art and I had to read a lot about feminism and postmodernism, so I understand why you are concerned. But what if God calls you to the arts and not science?

        • That’s no problem! There are TONS of great Christians who are conservative, logical and evidential who happen to have artsy degrees. This is just something that the man has to check out. And the woman especially has to check it out, because a man with an artsy degree may face problems providing for a family, and it really is his job to do that.

          • Sasha Denis says:

            Wow, that just brought so much insight lol. My fiancé has an associates in Bible, and a four year degree in Digital Media & Communications and has a hard time finding work. It worries me a bit, but what can you do? He loves the Lord and is very astute in the word of God.

  14. Perla says:

    True, true! Thanks for clearing that up.

  15. van Rooinek says:

    Be sure she tithes.

  16. amanda says:

    Quite frankly, I don’t agree with this. Being a female Christian I do not believe that asking a person questions like this means she is marriage material. These questions are abusrd. Most people learn about God through the scripture, I learned about God through life. I don’t know bible verses by heart nor can I tell you specific stories, but I know the basics; what you should and shouldn’t do. God has blessed me with many lessons, probably more than most learn in a lifetime. God chose me to go through really hard times because he knew I was strong enough to endure them and my gift from him is the ability to help those cope with the struggles they are going through because I’ve been there and I can relate. I have been through nearly everything you can possiblyl think of with the exception of being on fire, losing a child and being shot at. You can tell l am a Christian not because I say I am, you can tell because I live as one; day in and day out. And by the way, when I was two I died from drowning and that is part of the reason why I can’t remember bible verses. Don’t go around judging people, let God do that. He will let you know if this is the right person for you. You just need to be still and listen.

    • Sasha Denis says:

      Amen. I do agree that God will let you know if the person is right for you, however, there is a level of reason we must have as well. Proverbs 2:1-5, Proverbs 3:1-6:35, John 10:4, Acts 17:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, 2 Timothy 3:15 are scripture that speak about trusting the lord, learning his will, and his commands, knowing his voice, and continuous growth in the knowledge of him. We live in a skeptical world, and many who may seek to refute your beliefs. Many people are very knowledgable about what they believe, and can argue favorably well, we also should be able to defend our faith so that we may put the light on Christianity as truth, reality, and hope, in a fallen world. We are the light of the world. How can we be a light to the world when we don’t know what gives source to the light? we must learn, grow and gain the ability to defend our faith. there is so much against our faith these days, and we must be real about it, and not be shaken when the time gets rough, because it will. When your faith is firmly rooted in the knowledge of Truth, in which the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord, and knowledge of Him is understanding Proverbs 9:10, there is no way your faith may be shaken by the rulings of this earth. We must seek to know our God, and abide in him, and allow him to be the source of our life John 15:1-17

  17. Sasha Denis says:

    You know, I just happened to stumble on this post because i had been seeking information about Godly men, and their ability to provide and such. However, i was intrigued to know if I was a committed Godly woman, and if I would be a Christian woman worth marrying LOL. But surprisingly, i believe i would have passed by most, however, i have to learn the scientific evidence that God exist, and any apologetic involving science. But i am a firm believer of all of these things that were listed here Mr. Knight. I will also be ordering those books you have listed in your post. I am seeking to learn as much as I can about my faith, marriage, being a mother, ministry to my household and to the church. I will be getting married within the next year, but i have been having a deep desire to learn more, and grow more, in fervent adherence to the truth of the Word of God. I have also been finding myself in many theological debates lately, and i believe the Lord has sustained my adhering to the truths of His Word. Spirit led, and truth led. Thank you so much for this post. It inspires me to deepen my knowledge, and to be able to stand firm, In the Strength of Jesus Christ, for my faith against those who may oppose. I certainly don’t have a problem with hurting someone based on the truth of the Word of God. I have been dealing with that with my own mother lately, and she has been saying that i have been judging her negatively, because i speak of the fruits of her spirit, which are not clear to see at all. She believes she is a Christian, but she does not understand grace, and her belief system is based on happiness. It has been hard for me to minister to her because she says she believes in God, but in truth, i see no evidence of that. Anyway, i would like to thank you for your article once again. I am encouraged to learn more. God Bless

  18. Jason says:

    I have only been an actual, practicing, *real* man of God for about four years now…….and in my church we have more single men than women, and the single women who are there…..well, honestly……..it’s a social club for them. None would pass this test, or even want to talk about this, or even dare to think about the questions….the ones who would pass this are already married…and they are excellent wives, and love their husbands, their children….and Christ above all else.

    My singleness used to bother me greatly, but now…better to be single………..unless she shows up, and I know what kind of woman I want now. Good post WK

  19. Sarah says:

    I agree you a man should lead. I agreed with you when you said not touching a woman during courting will help you think objectively. That being said, the ability to answer your trivia questions is not the makings of a good wife. How do I know? There great examples of wonderful wives in the bible who could not answer these questions. Some of your posts sound more like a demanding list you have for God on the exact specifications of whom your wife should be. Last time I checked Jesus did not ask Adam for a wish list with specifications on a wife. I believe men are supposed to be leaders and sanctify their wives with the bible. Do you really believe that Sarah, whom the bible specifically calls out as an exemplary wife understood the big-bang theory? I am not convinced you understand women, as the gift God has given men. Just as God pursued and romanced the church, you have to woo her. Yes, a man is a teacher and high priest of the home. The bible says a father knows how to give good gifts. Have you considered that your wife will have gifts for you inside her that you did not even know you NEEDED? When you say something like this, “Baking cookies for Jesus is not the same as quantifying the improbability of forming a protein from amino acids by chance.”, you are having an arrogant pride about your knowledge. You are disrespecting women and the different anointing God has on their lives. Also this statement, “A man can serve God fine as a bachelor. He has to have compelling reasons why getting married would serve God more than staying single.”. This is false as God said “It is not good for man to be alone.” Yes Paul had his calling to singleness, and Paul had his opinion on marriage, but you are not Paul! This is a perfect example of the bad impression extreme feminism has put on men. Women expect less from men, thus men don’t feel the need to woo a woman anymore. Instead there is this atmosphere that a woman has to compel a man to marry her. When God puts an excellent woman on your path, whom He created just for you that should be all the compelling reason you need. I would be wary of any woman who would actually put up with an interrogation from you. Women are complicated creatures. Keep Studying them and asking God for wisdom. Did you have to compel God to love you? Then why does a woman need to compel you to love her???

    • Do you really believe that Sarah, whom the bible specifically calls out as an exemplary wife understood the big-bang theory?

      I’m curious as to how you think this is relevant. Some knowledge of contemporary science is important if one wants to present Christianity in the public square as the reasonable worldview for intelligent people today, whereas such knowledge wasn’t required back in Sarah’s time.

      • Thank you Thomas. I think Thomas is right, and apologetics is especially needed if you are going to a challenging place like college, where you can expect to be questioned about your faith by people with science backgrounds who respect science.

        (Sarah’s e-mail address has the extension .edu, so that’s why I mentioned college)

  20. ramie says:

    just because she doesnt study apologetics doesnt mean shes not a committed christian after all NONE of what you said in this questionnaire is found in the bible. I know that bible and thats what i know.

  21. Simone Oxley says:

    Very interesting! I started off with steam coming out my ears, now, after having read replies to comments, I’m seeing a lot more of your point. I love learning and I love life and yes, it’s all about putting in the time and effort. I’d love a reading list too =D I’m studying English and Maths, so namby pamby and intellectual, I call that best of both worlds, thank you for the entertaining insight. One question though, how far do you go before men get uncomfortable with a woman who knows more than him, do they really feel inferior, or does that just make them learn more themselves?!

    • If you are a man, you should never be uncomfortable with a woman who knows more than you, so long as she still looks to you for leadership and sees her role as chief of staff. Women have to understand that men have this odd need to lead and to be respected as leaders. So even if they are smarter and better, they have to understand that men have fragile egos and that getting love from a man is more important than telling him how to do everything better or beating him up for not being as good. This is very important.

      If you are going to ask a woman to raise kids, influence the church, influence the university, mentor people in the neighborhood and influence public policy, that’s a tall order. You want the smartest woman you can get. But for goodness sake, pick one who believes that men should lead in the marriage, and one who knows how to make men feel like they are good at leading.

      • Simone Oxley says:

        Excellent points! I think the message I get is that it’s more about effort and showing a man if you’re not good at something now by jove you’ll get off your backside and practice until you are! I freely admit I don’t always read the cream of the crop, but at least I read! I’m going to college, learning and improving every day. This thread has certainly made me think and that is always a good thing! Women have been told to take offence at men questioning them and their roles in life for so long, that we get offended without knowing why. I’m glad I read through everyone’s perspective, it’s helped me a lot. I see exactly what you mean about the social aspect of Christians. I will take on board your view, I would gladly embrace a husband as leader and support him any way I could, if that meant studying law or making clothing to sell, it would be relished. I think I need to let go of having to lead my own life because there’s no husband and then perhaps the right man will see it and see me. Many thanks =)

    • Oh, if you take a look at the Proverbs 31 woman, she is always busy doing productive stuff to help the family and influence the world. What good would she be as a partner if she wasn’t serving God and taking responsibility?

      Look:
      10 [b]A wife of noble character who can find?
      She is worth far more than rubies.
      11 Her husband has full confidence in her
      and lacks nothing of value.
      12 She brings him good, not harm,
      all the days of her life.
      13 She selects wool and flax
      and works with eager hands.
      14 She is like the merchant ships,
      bringing her food from afar.
      15 She gets up while it is still night;
      she provides food for her family
      and portions for her female servants.
      16 She considers a field and buys it;
      out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
      17 She sets about her work vigorously;
      her arms are strong for her tasks.
      18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
      and her lamp does not go out at night.
      19 In her hand she holds the distaff
      and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
      20 She opens her arms to the poor
      and extends her hands to the needy.
      21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
      for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
      22 She makes coverings for her bed;
      she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
      23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
      where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
      24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
      and supplies the merchants with sashes.
      25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
      she can laugh at the days to come.
      26 She speaks with wisdom,
      and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
      27 She watches over the affairs of her household
      and does not eat the bread of idleness.
      28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
      her husband also, and he praises her:
      29 “Many women do noble things,
      but you surpass them all.”
      30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
      but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
      31 Honor her for all that her hands have done,
      and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

      I think the trouble you see today, which scares men off, is that women are busy learning about things for themselves, and they aren’t thinking about being helpers for their husbands. My candidate for President in the last election was Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, and it never occurred to me that she was being bad to her husband by becoming President. If you read about her relationship with her VERY traditional Christian husband Marcus, he was always trying to make her better. He was running a business so he asked her to go to law school to learn tax law, for crying out loud. And she DID! She didn’t even want to because tax law is really hard. He is the leader, and he decided to make his wife smarter by sending her to graduate school so she could help him with the business. And he probably asked her to run for President too, so she could help their family and other families by passing better laws. So there is nothing wrong with smart women or women being in important roles – it’s all how they view their husbands, and their understanding of his needs as a man. Men need respect from women as much as women need love and communication. Men don’t need to be “better” or “smarter” if the woman still looks to the man for leadership.

  22. aquietmimic says:

    Knowing the feminist society today, this post is more suited for men actually. Starting with myself : ( I’ve got work to do.

  23. thinker says:

    Salutations. I am a 20 year old woman who loves the Lord, but I would like to submit that your “requirements” are borderline unrealistic when I pair them with how you also believe women should treat men (based on your article about what men want from women, shown through paintings). Really, even if a woman could accurately answer all the above-mentioned points, even if she could wage a world-class debate concerning them, you would not consider her marriage-material unless she also behaved in a manner at least similar to what was pointed out in the article concerning women and paintings.

    A woman might have a basic knowledge of these concepts you listed (and I do think its necessary to have a solid opinion concerning marriage, children, abortion, and husbands), but do not expect her to be an expert in both the knowledge (meaning, all the points you listed) and emotional-relational fields (meaning, able to react to men as you indicated was proper in the article about women and paintings).

    Your wanting a woman to be a server, a sweetheart, and a studier all in one is not exactly realistic…if she exists, that kind of woman truly is one in every several thousand (or more). The delicacy of raising a human who could receive the perfect balance of factual and social exposure so as to be what you prescribe as the “basic stuff” is so difficult that if it were achieved, surely she would be impaired in some other way.

    Also, you mentioned writing long essays…but, not all people are lengthy writers, just as not all people are lengthy speakers. We must all write, we must all speak, but to do either one at length is a gift and a preference, not a common, everyday proof of spirituality. God does not require this gift of all His people, instead He grants “gifts differing” (meaning, nobody has it all). And we are all given talents that we can use to support our faith, it just may not be written debates.

    Speaking of gifts, if someone is truly servant-hearted, its usually because that individual feels no need to take the lead – they are most fulfilled in being fed direction (not giving it). If so, they will have little motivation to study – instead, they will trust their dear leaders to be the defenders of the faith while they prepare the leaders to go out and “fight” these “wars.” The kings of the world plan the battles, the servants only hear of the battles, to borrow kingdom-type analogy.

    Using a real-life example concerning women to illustrate my point, many of the most tender mothers are also the worst at being able to discipline their children. And vice versa. Who can find a woman who is perfect in both categories? Nobody. If she’s perfect, she must be a grandmother, not a mother. Balance takes experience and no one is perfect the first time around. This example using tenderness and discipline is a manifestation of two human functions: heart-knowledge and head-knowledge. Women who are better at being tender, being relational, are heart-ers, women who are better at disciplining and debating are head-ers in this equation.

    A woman who has more brain will naturally have less heart and vice versa. Its because no human is perfect (yes, of course we are called to walk the right path – “Be ye perfect, even as I am perfect, says the Lord” – but such perfection is perfection in the making [in the process] not the immediate). Perfection comes from balance. Being imperfect is being imbalanced.

    What meets your requirements as basic qualifications is rather perfectionistic, or at least, idealistic. I would like to know how many women you actually, personally know who really meet this qualification and also qualify as demonstrating the behavior you prescribe in your article about women and paintings.

    But, accolades on your own thoroughness and commitment and desire for others thoroughness and commitment. I am glad to call you my brother in Christ!

  24. thinker says:

    One more thing! Why would you use profanity in one of your responses to a comment, but look for such godliness in a woman? It’s not consistent…and is kind of…disappointing.

    Honestly, if a guy looked for such excellent qualities in a woman, but could not communicate his strong points without using profanity, I would not marry him because his leadership appears faulty. So, think about the example you set as a man who critiques what it takes a woman to be a wife.

    Also, write an article for your female readers that includes what proves a man is marriage material. I curious to see how that would look in comparison to your requirements for women.

    • I don’t think that use of profanity in a comment is as important as protecting, providing and moral/spiritual leading. That’s what a man’s responsibilities are in the home.

      And by providing, I don’t just mean money. Women run on love, so he has to be an expert at providing that.

      • thinker says:

        Protecting against what? Sin? If so, isn’t it worth noting that use of profanity is a sin (no matter what “degree” of profanity it is) since our culture recognizes it as symbolic, degrading speech and God says not to speak anything that does not “edify” other believers. Your excuse is a poor one, and doesn’t pass.

        Moral leadership, eh? Would you expect women to do well in so many areas and yet you wouldn’t mind her using profanity? Expectations in a marriage run both ways for most. The kind of women you describe as wife-material are not going to be drawn to men who use profanity under any circumstance (especially on a blog that demands being godly, well-rounded individuals). If you find a creature who has such a tender conscience and pure heart in so many other areas, she will also abhor verbal or written symbols that she considers

        As to your very last sentence in your response, I think you got the idea but don’t fully understand how to do it. Blowing off an action by saying its not the biggest piece of the puzzle will get you into trouble because the little things make up the big things when it comes to marriage. Some women will feel violated or bothered by the fact that a spouse is okay with something that they (the wives) consider as sin. The sin isn’t against them, but it affects them. Truly, some women care very little for the “normal” proofs of love (anniversaries acknowledged, gifts bestowed, help around the house) in comparison to a consistent, high moral standard. If you are looking to “love” a woman, you must acknowledge her tender conscience, not excuse your actions. This is a very hard version of love of to carry out, but this is the love that women really need. Actually, it is the kind of love that all people within the body of Christ need in order to stay unified, but its most important in the marriage realm, I believe.

        Don’t pollute the purity you’re trying to create – God doesn’t give us that option.

        • Well, I think at this point we should just decide to do what we think is most effective in the public square. You are certainly welcome to your approach, and God bless you.

          • thinker says:

            And God bless you as well. Over all, your blog is very informative and interesting.

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